Bingo Pinballs

Created on 04-16-2014 – Last update 06-30-2020

_ Keith provides photos and helps trouble-shoot the Kumback key on the Ballys _

Keith NickaloSnippet unavailable

To Meempinballs@g

Jul 12, 2011

Hi Danny. Hi Robert, Nice to meet you sir.

First off, my keyswitch has been neutered. Somebody didn't want anybody adding credits with a key. As you can see in the pics, one switch has been bent up so that it can't be opened. The switch stack on the top has had it stack keeper (that's what I call the plastic things that hold the switches at the proper intervals) removed. Not to get off a tangent here but that would be the best cheat of all....Just score yourself one of those keys somehow.

Alright well I wont start babbling. I took a look at the schematic and manual for bonanza. They both depict the keyswitch in the stroked position for some reason and not at rest.

By at rest I mean that it would be in a normal position where you could come up and turn the game on and put a quarter in it and play a game. The man/schem show it as it would be when it is adding a credit to the replay meter.

As I said on my picture the switch stack keeper is missing. If it were there, it would be pressed up against the key cam. They key cam is actually holding the first switch closed and keeping the next four switches from contacting each other. When you stroke the key the NC switch would open and the four NO switches would close. It wont put the replay up until you went around far enough to open the the other NC switch on the side. This is a SPDT switch. This is the one that is all bent to hell on my game. The idea is that all the other switches are in place and when you stroke over this far...Cha ching....the replay meter steps up. This SPDT switch isn't shown in the Bonanza manual but is on the schematic.

I thought maybe I'd take a look at the schem and go over the five switches of the keyswitch and just say what position they should be in at rest. By rest I mean you can turn the game on, put a coin in and play.

Switch one:
should be closed.
It's at about A-12 on the schematic. If this switch isn't closed, you'll never be able to get volts to the start relay.

Switch two:
Should be open.
If not, it will step up the key meter every time the replay meter steps up. If you don't have a key meter in your game, this switch is useless as all it does is complete the circuit to the key meter. It is at about K-13 on the schematic as is switch five and the SPDT switch that isn't shown in the manual.

Switch three:
Should be open.
It's right at F-5. It connects wire 30 right to 70 thru the anti cheat relay. If this switch is closed, the anti cheat relay will always be energized.

Switch four:
Should be open.
If it isn't open, your game tilts.

Switch five:
Should be open.
This is connecting the volts down to the SPDT switch and waiting on it to close in it's direction.

SPDT switch - not in the manual.
The bottom blade should be closed with the middle. This switch decides if the volts come down through the replay cams or the key switch.

So to sum it all up. At rest, the key cam is pushing the switch keeper over holding the first switch on the top set of switch closed. The other four are being held open. When it is turned, the first switch opens (Disconnecting the start relay) the other four close tilting the game, powering the anti cheat relay and connecting switches to make a path to the replay register and the key meter. When it goes over far enough it switch over the path from the replay cams (or cam 10 on multiplay) to the key switch and completes the circuit which fires the replay register step up coil and the key meter.

I hope this helps. Sorry that I don't have that stack keeper in there.

Keith

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On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Danny Leach <bingopinballs@com

hi Keith, hey check this out - i am wondering if you could please tell me the nominal position of the kumback mechanism and switches on one of your Tahitis

i think this guy has adjusted his switches out of position....

please send me a few pics showing the position of the mechanism (based upon the key) so I know if it is up/down/whatever in the cabinet and then also based upon the key, know if his switches are out of positions - judge if they are opened and closed as they should be when this thing is suppose to be out-of-play....

does that make sense - basically i need enough reference points/info/detail of the assembly to see if he has done something wrong.... Who knows, could his lock be broken and turning, so it is out-of-position - etc and causing the problem....

hence, why I ask for reference to the key... I am not too sure what to ask for, laugh.....

===========

--- On Mon, 7/11/11, Danny Leach < > wrote:

From: Danny Leach <bingopinballs@yah>

Subject: Re: Question about Bally Bonanza

To: "Robert Baraké" <empinballs@g>

Date: Monday, July 11, 2011, 11:12 AM

thxs Robert, good to hear from you

well, i've never had one of these, but let’s see what we can do.... the good news is that bally was very consistent in what they did from machine-to-machine in deploying like-circuits....

the note on the schematic (key switches shown in key replay placements positions) is just a bit cryptic, i am not too sure if that means those switches are where they need to

be "at the stroke position" that enables a replay" - etc

so let's find out where they should be when the key is in the off/insert position - i have a friend (just yesterday we were just talking about the kumback keys) that has

a set of Tahitis we can compare to....

please take a set of photos: 1) the key in your hand going into the lock as the machine sits unattended (factory/floor condition) - i would like to see the orientation of the key as you would first start using it, as if you were going to first insert it to add a game to the bingo. 2) then the key in the lock, with the cabinet background also shown in the picture - please just insert the key, do not turn it 3) then the switch positions

in other words a set of photos that shows the machine sitting idle, that shows the orientation/position of the lock based upon the position of the key, by showing the orientation of the key in and out of the lock as it would be when you first insert it. then without turning the key, show the position of the switches....

we can then compare this to the Tahiti and see if your lock and switches are in the original "not used" / "nominal" factory positions.....

then if the mechanisms are the same and the switch positions are the same, then we can eliminate this as a factor and start trouble-shooting your bingo with this out of the equation - likewise, if there is an error we can correct it and then proceed as necessary...

makes sense to me, based upon what I know so far _ if you agree, let's proceed please,

best regards,

danny

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--- On Mon, 7/11/11, Robert Baraké < > wrote:

From: Robert Baraké <empinballs@g >
Subject: Question about Bally Bonanza
To: bingopinballs@yah
Date: Monday, July 11, 2011, 9:00 AM

Hello Danny,

Let me start off by saying how much I enjoy your bingo website. I think we are "afflicted" in the same way by these fascinating machines, on both the technical & playable levels. Again, thank you for the effort you put into this, it is commendable.

I have a question about the Bonanza bingo I picked up from an operator a few months ago and I am hoping that you can help. Previously I have collected mostly the 1950's and some 60's era bingos, but this one (and others I would think) have a key switch on the side that has stumped my repair effortsl. Can you explain the function of this thing to me ? I understand that by turning the key to the right I can add service credits, but turning it to the left affects 4 normally closed switches and one normally open one. When I first got this machine they were out of their "factory" adjustments, so silly me without noting the operator's adjustments, I instinctively adjusted and gapped them to what they should be. The machine stayed on tilt and attempts to cancel credits even when the replay counter gets to zero. I have since then opened one of the four normally closed switches and i am off tilt, but can't get the balls to lift onto the playfield. the machine does its flashes when coined, but no ball.

Any help would be appreciated.

Best Regards from one bingo nut to another,

Robert Baraké
www.montrealpinball.com

========

From: Keith Nickalo <knickelson67@>

To: Danny Leach <bingopinballs@>

Sent: Friday, July 8, 2011 7:37 PM

Subject: Re: Flyer

Hi Danny.

Tahiti did indeed have the kumbacky or later play key. I think the key was introduced on the 1st ring game and most of them had it after that. I just went through nine Tahiti's and I can say definitively that key is there. The big problem with the later play key is that it is wired into a bunch of the circuitry. If the switch gets out of whack (if somebody sticks the key and there and forces it to turn even though it's all seized up) then the switches don't return to their previous position and now you got problems.

I met a guy with a Miss America Supreme. It seemed to be having all kinds of bizarre problems. I didn't think I could fix it for him at his house so I took it home with me only to figure out he forced the key switch...broke it and then tried to rewire it himself. Took like ten minutes to fix after it was in my basement. DOH!!! I literally fixed it before I put the head on. I had balls or something rolling around in the cabinet so when I got the cabinet in I opened up the door and shined a flashlight in there and saw that switch.. Fixed the switch, brought the head in and put it on.....Everything worked just fine. Took it back apart and took it back to him. It was a fun way to spend a Saturday afternoon.

What I really wonder about this feature is....Was it ever really used??? If a game or credit were worth five cents each and you gave the cashier a fin, is he really gonna go over there and give that key 100 strokes. My God that would have to take at least ten minutes. Maybe longer. You get one credit per stroke. You can't just hold it open and let the meter roll up. I just don't see this happening in real life. I think it was just a farce so they could claim they weren't really gambling. In my opinion it was all part of the cat-n-mouse game that was bingo pinballs post Corpan.

I also wonder about what you said concerning the forty coin limit. As far as I know this was only on Tahit, Mystic Gate and Bonanza. Do you know of any other games it was on? The reason that I ask is because I have heard from several different sources now that there are some forty coin games where you can play as many replays as you want but you can only deposit forty coins. I've never come across a game like this. All the 40 coin games I have had (Well Mystic Gate and Tahiti) steps up the coin unit every time the timer cams spin or every cycle if you prefer. I checked the schematic on Bonanza and it's the same. Also, the coin unit itself is directly in the proportioning of these games. On Tahiti for example, you have no chance to light one of the mystic lines on the first five coins/replays. None at all. So if the coin unit isn't advancing, you are kind of stuck not being able to win anything other than what that one position on the coin counter that will award. Pretty much, the coin counter must advance for proper game proportioning. These forty coin games don't have a regular mixer like the old bingos. The proportioning on them works differently.

Couple years ago I thought I'd just take the coin unit out of a Tahit and play as many coins as I felt like. I was going to just unsolder the step up coil but couldn't get to it so I cut it with some snips. (Yes I was pretty sure of myself at that time) Well I should have looked at the schematic first. After I did that the game just pounded the odds all the way up to the top in maybe the first eight or nine coins. Double stepping them and everything. Then once they maxed that it was it. Nothing else would happen. You could feed it a thousand quarters if you felt like it. No mystic lines ever got enabled. No "4 stars scores..." no "Hold" ...nothing. So that's when I learned about the forty coin unit. I had to take the unit out and do some contortionist soldering to get it back to working order. Anyway, I was just wondering if there really is a game where the forty coin unit doesn't come into play like Tahiti and Mystic Gate.

Alright, well my son just called and he's on his way into town. He's having some call problems and it sound like he's dropping into his safety net so I'm heading out to the garage.

Keith

_ Thank you Keith _

~